Triggers, Rules Violations, and You

Hello. There have been a handful of instances where certain rules or miscommunication have caused confusion during a match, and since Thursdaddy events aren't sanctioned and we don't have judges to act as the final arbiter, these incidents are often frustrating and leave one or both parties feeling bad. Because of this, I have decided to write a detailed overview that explains the rules behind some of the common occurrences that I've noticed and offer both preemptive solutions to avoid conflict as well as options for resolving errors after they happen.

To start, I want to compare Thursdaddy tournaments to official sanctioned Magic events. This is one of the more confusing aspects of Thursdaddy for those who are just joining in. We generally have a very casual environment in terms of how the tournaments are run, conversation during gameplay, and disseminating information. In contrast, we try to hold ourselves to high standards during matches. When you are playing a match, try to consider it as if it were taking place at a Competitive REL event. Takesies-backsies, late triggers, and other things of that nature should not be something you can expect to get away with. I will provide more specifics as I progress, as that's largely what this article will be addressing. The tricky part about viewing it as Competitive REL is that we don't have a great enforcement system. Judges aren't around to handle disputes and give appropriate penalties. It's largely on you as a player to hold yourself to this standard of play and to expect the same from your opponent.

Let's dive into some specifics.

The rules surrounding triggers have changed many times throughout Magic's history, and there have been a handful of important changes even during the existence of Thursdaddy over the last couple years. I have seen more than a handful of players confused about how they work, and I will do my best to explain the important parts in terms of how you should expect them to be applied at Thursdaddy.

This is the biggest and most important of all the trigger rules, and it also causes the most conflict and confusion. Without quoting the Comprehensive Rules, any trigger you control that you do not announce is one that your opponent does not have to remind you about, and if you pass the point where it would have affected the gamestate, you do not get to resolve it. If you remember it later, generally all that happens is that you get to be sad. Remembering your own triggers has now become one of the required skills to be good at Magic, and occasionally it is the one factor that distinguishes the skill level of two players.

One point of contention that often gets brought up is whether a trigger has the word "may" in its rules text. This doesn't matter in the slightest in terms of whether the trigger can be missed. This only factors in when you remember your trigger and decide that you don't want to use it. It gives you more options when you're playing well; it does not act as a safeguard to help you when you are playing poorly.

Now, if your opponent wants to be nice to you for some reason, they are certainly welcome to remind you to put that trigger onto the stack. I have done this and encourage you to do this for any reason you see fit. For me personally, it happens most often when I'm playing Cube against a player who has little to no experience in the format. In these cases, I might take the opportunity to remind them that I take 3 instead of 2 because their other creature has Exalted, or that my first removal spell doesn't actually kill their creature thanks to their Kira, Great Glass-Spinner. My Cube is full of cards people have never played with before, and those sorts of things can be easily overlooked.

If you see a player being helpful in this way to their opponent in one instance, but not in another, remember that this is their choice. They are not required to remind them every time. You may see me stop reminding an opponent about something I've told them 5 times in a row, and it will probably be because the game has progressed to the point where I need my opponent to make a mistake in order to win. Or maybe I'm sick of telling them the same thing every turn. Or maybe I actually forgot about it this time along with them. It doesn't matter why, it is still allowed to be missed. Plenty of games are decided by a player forgetting their triggers. Just try not to let it be you!

Let's be clear about one thing: you are NOT allowed to intentionally miss your own triggers. If you intentionally fail to announce and resolve this trigger, it is cheating. DO NOT execute a strategy that involves you missing a trigger that you are not supposed to. If a trigger is going to cause you to lose the game, you lose the game, plain and simple. Don't cross your fingers and hope that your opponent forgets to remind you. If neither of you mention it, it looks bad on both of you. If your opponent brings it up, it looks awfully bad for you because now people will wonder about your intent and whether or not you were trying to cheat to win a game of Magic.

The classic example of a trigger that causes you to lose the game are the ones found on cards like Slaughter Pact and Pact of Negation. If you pass through your upkeep without paying for it, pick your cards up. You died. The end.

Here is a more nuanced example that also shows the difference for triggers that have the word "may." Normally, a trigger that says "draw a card" is one that you would love to have resolve at every opportunity. Drawing cards is awesome. But let's say you're in a position where you have zero cards left in your library and you control a trigger that says "draw a card." You MUST draw a card and lose the game. Even though your awesome trigger is decidedly not awesome in this scenario, you still have to do it. However, if you have zero cards in your library but this time your trigger says "you may draw a card," you can choose not to draw it because the trigger gives you that choice. You are still required to announce it and resolve it just like everything else; the only difference is that you have a choice during resolution.

Your opponent is similarly responsible for maintaining the game state and remembering these triggers. This is a little confusing because of what I said earlier about your opponent not being required to remind you of your triggers. Despite how it may sound, these statements are not mutually exclusive, and I will now explain how they interact together. After a trigger has been missed, if either player points it out within a turn, its controller's opponent has the option of whether or not to put it onto the stack. For example, let's say you control a trigger that says "put a 5/5 creature token onto the battlefield," but you clearly forget about it and end your turn. At this point, the trigger is certainly considered missed, and an overwhelming majority of the time, your opponent is not going to want to give you a 5/5 creature when they don't have to. But in this case, during your end step, your opponent mentions that you forgot to resolve that trigger and tells you to put it onto the stack. They are allowed to do that, and now you have to put that token into play. Maybe they're being nice, or maybe they have a Zealous Conscripts in their hand and they can attack for lethal if they steal your 5/5. In either case, even though the trigger was considered missed, it can still go onto the stack as long as it's brought up within a turn and your opponent chose to do so. Usually, when a player misses a beneficial trigger, it's often with their opponent's best interest not to say anything in the hopes that they forget it again in the future. In the case where either you or your opponent point out a missed trigger within a turn, your opponent can still choose not to put the trigger onto the stack, and the game proceeds as if the trigger had never happened (aside from the fact that both players have know acknowledged its existence).

There are a couple types of triggers that deserve more explanation here. Any trigger that creates an effect whose duration has already passed cannot be put onto the stack. If you forgot to resolve a trigger that gave your creature +2/+2 until end of turn, your opponent can't put it onto the stack during their next turn. The Zealous Conscripts scenario I mentioned earlier is a good example of why they aren't allowed to do this. Secondly, for any triggers that have a choice with a default option (these usually say "if you don't" or "unless"), if your opponent decides to put it onto the stack, the default option is the only option that can be chosen. For example, if you play a Mox Diamond, but you forget to discard a land card to its trigger and enough time has passed for the trigger to become missed, if your opponent decides to put it onto the stack, they cannot choose to make you discard a land card; they must choose the default option of "If you don't, put it into its owners graveyard."

Some triggers are considered "detrimental." For the most part, these are triggers that are actively bad for their controller. Mana Crypt and Firedrinker Satyr are two good examples of this. The main difference between a trigger that is detrimental and one that is not lies in the way that Judges handle the situation at Competitive+ REL sanctioned tournaments. If you miss a detrimental trigger, you will receive a warning at minimum (perhaps more if your intent is questioned), whereas you will not receive a warning for missing a non-detrimental trigger. At Thursdaddy, we don't have judges or any system involving warnings, so there's not much difference for us. It's just a whole lot more suspicious if you miss a detrimental trigger, since those are the ones cheaters will be trying to miss most of the time. In large part, detrimental triggers will be treated the same as non-detrimental triggers at Thursdaddy, but you can expect your opponent to remind you of your detrimental ones way more often if you forget.

The rules for announcing triggers have also undergone revisement recently, so here is how you should be announcing your triggers at Thursdaddy.

Any trigger that visibly changes the board state must be announced immedately. If this means getting a token, putting a counter on a permanent, drawing a card, changing a life total, or pretty much anything involving physical changes, you have to let your opponent know that it's happening, and you have to perform its actions immediately upon resolution. You cannot wait until after your opponent has blocked to tell them that Citadel Siege put two +1/+1 counters on your attacking creature. In this situation, you either put your dice on your guy before attackers are declared, or you don't get any counters at all.

There was a small change recently regarding these board-changing triggers. Previously, as long as you announced it and showed knowledge of what it did, it was okay for you to grab your tokens or counters or whatever later in the turn if you forgot to do it right away. THIS IS NO LONGER THE CASE. If you announce your Thopter Spy Network trigger during your upkeep but make no effort to grab a token during your turn, you don't get to block your opponent's attacking creature during combat by remembering to put it into play during their turn. It is considered a missed trigger at that point. Now, there are plenty of shortcuts that can be used to speed up the game and make things easier on both players. Let's say I'm in my main phase and I cast a card that makes tokens when it enters the battlefield. I'll announce it and ship the turn saying that I'm going to grab tokens from this creature while they begin their turn. This is a time-saving technique I encourage everyone to use. Saying something like "attack for 6" when attacking with Geist of Saint Traft is usually understood by both players. If you're unsure if they'll let you use a shortcut, ask them about it. "Is it okay if we just say the Angel token from Geist is attacking to save some time?" If they want you to produce a token for any reason, you must oblige them. If you communicate clearly with your opponent and you won't have a problem. If you have several things going on at once but want to save some time, let your opponent know that you have to grab dice out of your bag while they have priority. As long as you're physically in the process of getting the required items necessary for resolving a trigger, it won't be an issue.

Overall, announcing and resolving visible triggers is pretty straightforward. It's the other kind that tend to get people into trouble:

Any trigger that DOES NOT visibly change the board state does not have to be announced until it becomes relevant to the game. This trips people up rather often, so I'll try to be as clear as possible. Most often, these types of triggers are ones that change the power and/or toughness of creatures, grant cards certain abilities, change a card type from one thing to another, or change the rules of the game temporarily. The most common example that also does a good job of explaining all of the details is Prowess. Let's say you control a Seeker of the Way and you cast a noncreature spell. While the board state certainly changes, it does not change in any visible way because we don't have to represent changes in power/toughness with any physical objects. After you cast the noncreature spell, you may announce Seeker's triggers if you wish. If you do, that's completely fine. They will go onto the stack and resolve as normal. However, you don't have to announce them right away if you don't want to, since they won't be considered missed until a little later.

Let's say that you didn't announce Seeker's triggers, and after your noncreature spell resolved, you declare it as an attacker. Your opponent declares no blocks and you proceed to combat damage. You get to say, "Okay, you take 3 and I gain 3 from lifelink." This demonstrates that you did not miss your trigger, and you announced it as soon as it became relevant to the game state. In this same scenario, if you proceed to combat damage and you say, "Okay, you take 2," that is an equally true statement. In the latter case, you have now passed the point where the trigger would have an effect on the game state, and it is considered missed.

Hopefully this illustrates why it can be useful to hold off on announcing these invisible triggers until the last possible moment. In the same scenario, let's say that your opponent decided to block Seeker with a 2/2 creature. If you proceed to combat damage and explain that your Seeker is a 3/3, that's pretty good for you since now you keep your creature while theirs dies, and your opponent might be at a disadvantage after making a block that they thought would trade creatures.

This is where things get a little tricky. Imagine the same scenario except you're the one on the other side of the table and your opponent is the one with Seeker of the Way after they had cast a noncreature spell. They're attacking you with it, and you have a 2/2 creature. You're not sure if they remembered their trigger or not. You want to block and trade creatures, but you don't want to get blown out if they did in fact remember Prowess. Is there any way you can find out if they remembered their trigger before making a decision?

Lucky for you, the answer is yes! You can simply ask your opponent about the status of their creature, and they are obligated to tell you the truth. If you're confused and your first question is, "But what stops them from lying?" just hang on and keep reading; I will explain. Before declaring blocks, you can ask something along the lines of, "How big is your creature?" or "Okay, you're attacking for 2?" At this point, whatever answer they give you is true, as long as it's among the legal options. If they say that it's a 3/3, they have demonstrated that they remembered their Prowess trigger, and you can decide not to block so you don't lose your 2/2 for nothing. If their answer is that Seeker is a 2/2, they have demonstrated that they forgot their Prowess trigger, and it is considered missed. You can now block it with your 2/2, and unless a player takes additional actions before combat damage, those two creatures will trade.

Now, to explain the "What if they're lying?" part. If you ask your opponent how big their Seeker is and they tell you that it's a 2/2, they are no longer allowed to tell you that it's a 3/3 during the combat damage step. If they try to do so, that's against the rules, and you should stand your ground. As with any sort of rules dispute, if the two players cannot come to an agreement, one or both of you should request assistance from a knowledgable third party. At the end of this article, I will go into more detail about how you should ask for help and offer some names of people who can help you.

The above examples are probably the most common type of this trigger you will encounter. Changing the power and toughness of creatures is something you'll see all the time, and things that grant creatures abilities like haste, trample, or lifelink are also very common. Earlier, I mentioned triggers that "change the rules of the game" being another example of invisible triggers, and you may be wondering what exactly that means. Let's say you cast and resolve a card that says "when this enters the battlefield, creatures can't block this turn." You are not obligated to announce it right away, but as soon as your opponent attempts to block one of your attacking creatures, you can tell them they can't block this turn because of the earlier trigger. As far as trigger rules are concerned, this functions the exact same way as things like Prowess. If your opponent asks you if your creatures can be blocked and you respond affirmatively or if you allow your opponent to block without saying anything, then you have missed the trigger. The concept of cards that temporarily change the rules of the game can be somewhat confusing, but since that's not the point of this article, I'm not going to go into further detail about that idea specifically. If you want to know more about it or have any questions regarding that topic, feel free to ask me and I'll offer my best explanation.

Not announcing these invisible triggers immediately might sound like a scummy thing to do and that you're trying to use an unclear board state to confuse your opponent and trick them into making a mistake. It depends on your perspective, but for the most part I can't reasonably deny that claim. However, the fact of the matter is that this style of play is now allowed and protected by the rules. Much like remembering to announce all your triggers is a skill required for today's competitive Magic players, delaying the announcement of invisible triggers is but another way to offer you a strategic advantage over your opponent. If you want to be the person that announces all of their Prowess triggers immediately and reminds your opponents to resolve all their beneficial triggers, you are certainly welcome to do that. People will probably enjoy playing against you a lot more because of it, but you can be reasonably certain that you will not win as many matches as an equally skilled player who uses these trigger rules in the more competitive fashion.

Those words sound scary, but this only means that a player has taken an illegal action and both players failed to notice it. Common examples of rules violations include controlling two of the same legendary permanent at the same time, putting a creature in your graveyard that doesn't actually have lethal damage marked on it, moving a permanent to the wrong zone, and forgetting to resolve a spell or ability due to a complicated stack. Unlike triggers, rules violations are mistakes that should not be made, and both players are responsible for maintaining the state of the game. If you are playing a game and you notice something that both of you missed earlier, regardless of who it benefits, don't be silent. Point out the error and communicate with your opponent as to the best way to resolve the issue.

This, I feel, is the one area where not having to rely on judges is beneficial. When rules violations occur during competitive tournament play, a judge has to come to your table, listen to both sides of the story, and make a decision using only the information presented to them. Often, if it's been more than a turn since the error was made, nothing can be done and the judge will instruct the match to resume as-is. Lucky for us, we are not shackled by this rule. Both players have been there for the whole match, so they will likely know how much has changed since the rules violation occurred, and they can determine how far they want to back up or what actions to take in order to return the game state back to where it should be. That creature should be dead? Let's put it in the graveyard now. Does that change the way you attacked or blocked last turn? Maybe we can back up and redo that phase.

There will of course be times when too much time has passed and too many variables exist for the game to be rewound to before the incident, and that's okay. Everyone makes mistakes. But if it's as simple as sacrificing one of your permanents to The Legend Rule or moving a card to the appropriate zone, I encourage everyone to make those adjustments regardless of how many turns ago it was. Usually both players can agree on the best course of action, but if they can't, don't hesitate to ask for help. Find someone near you and get their opinion on the situation, or track down one of the more knowledgable players to get a more "official" ruling.

The one thing that causes more disputes than anything else is poor communication between players. It may seem silly to announce your trigger for the tenth turn in a row instead of just resolving it, but it should still be done out of respect for your opponent. I encourage everyone to speak their actions aloud as opposed to just playing your cards and using hand gestures. Make it clear when you are giving your opponent priority. Ensure both players know what phase and step the game is in. Announce every single life total change out loud, and confirm it with your opponent. This all sounds very basic and patronizing, but you would be amazed at how often these things get overlooked and end up causing a problem. Let me offer some examples:

One shortcut I see players frequently take is casting a removal spell on a creature "in response" to their opponent putting that creature onto the stack. Much of the time, this is probably fine, but I promise that it is annoying 100% of the time. Let the creature resolve, and wait for your opponent to give you priority. You are literally only hurting yourself by acting too quickly. I can't count the number of times I have cast a creature, watched my opponent kill it "in response," only to cast my other, better creature immediately afterwards. If my opponent had waited to receive priority before casting their removal spell, they could have chosen the second creature. Waiting for priority also gives me an opportunity to make a mistake or to take an action that makes your removal spell even more of a blowout. Maybe I'm trying to enchant or equip the creature I just cast, now you can get a 2-for-1 or make me spend my mana poorly that turn.

The above scenarios highlight my dislike for the ubiquity of the phrase "in response." People need to quit using it to mean things that it doesn't. "In response" translates directly to "while I have priority," almost exclusively after your opponent has put a spell or ability onto the stack. This phrase causes entirely too many communication problems, and I encourage you to use it as little as possible. The most frequent times it is used poorly are during combat. Imagine these scenarios:

1. You have several creatures in play and a bunch of open mana, and you say, "Go to combat?" I say, "In response," and then I cast a removal spell on one of your creatures. What phase are we in? Are we still in your Precombat Main Phase, or are we in the Begin Combat step? You have no way of really knowing when I intended to cast my spell, and honestly, it makes me sound like I probably don't know the difference (and I assure you that the difference is vast). What I should have done instead is be clear about when I'm casting my spell. "During the Begin Combat step, I'm going to cast X." I know that it takes an extra two seconds, but it saves plenty of confusion and probably a bunch of arguing in the long run.

2. You have a bunch of creatures representing lethal damage in play. You go straight to combat and tell me you're attacking with all your creatures. I say, "In response," and cast a spell that taps all of your guys. This scenario is even worse because both players skipped vital communication, and we have ended up in a scenario where you could say, "Okay, that resolves," and argue that I am dead. I could argue that you didn't give me a chance to cast my spells while I had priority before the Declare Attackers step. You could then argue that because I didn't back you up to the appropriate step that your shortcut was accepted and attackers are still coming in. It's a giant, goddamned mess. And it's so incredibly easy to avoid. Verbally give your opponent priority. Tell your opponent exactly when you're casting your spell. If your opponent ever skips one of these steps, ask them for clarification, or interrupt their shortcut before they get too far ahead of themselves.

Your mom told you to "use your words" plenty of times growing up. Don't disappoint her.

I have seen several players on more than one occasion get confused about how much information they are allowed to know about a card or how much information they are required to give their opponent. Both you and your opponent are allowed to know the full oracle text of any card. At sanctioned tournaments, the judge is the one that can provide that information, but here at Thursdaddy, just tell a player if they ask or look it up online.

The most common instances where this is a problem is when a dual faced card is involved. Both halves of the card are public information when it is in a public zone. If you or your opponent wants to see the other side of a dual faced card, just pull it out of the sleeve and look at it. It's really that simple. Additionally, you may do this during the drafting portion of a cube draft, as knowing both halves is important to pick decisions.

We all love Magic. We all love playing Magic, and we all love watching people play good Magic. At Thursdaddy, we encourage people to watch their friends between rounds and discuss different plays after the match because that helps everyone grow and become better players. That's what we're about: playing and getting better at this awesome game.

However, I would like to remind everyone to be both vigilant and careful about involving yourself in a match in progress. There are something that you should do as a spectator, and some things you should not. Let's look at some of these actions.

1. DON'T talk about hidden information or offer strategic advice to anyone playing a match. This includes when the players are between games (during shuffling/sideboarding). This is a pretty obvious and generic rule of Magic in general, but I realize that sometimes the casual atmosphere of Thursdaddy can make it appear as if this isn't a rule. Someone might topdeck something and show it off to the spectators asking, "Is this good?" The player is allowed to say whatever they want about it to their opponent, but the spectators shouldn't give away any information. Anything beyond "That's certainly a card" or "It's not not good" is likely too much.

If a player made a mistake that you want to tell them about for the future, please wait until the full match is over. I have seen people point things out after game one, and that's just not allowed. The player can now use this information to their advantage in the following games, and you have likely affected the outcome of the match. If you are the player's opponent and you see this happen, let the spectator know that they shouldn't be doing this. Be stern, but be aware that they may not have known this isn't allowed. Make it clear that they shouldn't be doing this in the future, and move on with the match.

2. DO question the players if you believe a game rules violation has occurred. You have probably seen me do this on many different occasions. Forgot to exile a creature due to Anafenza, the Foremost? Fix it. Accidentally have two Urborgs in play? Get rid of one. As a spectator, you may notice something that the two players have missed. Depending on how long you have been watching the match, you might be uncertain about whether an error has been made. It's ultimately up to you whether or not you want to express your concern, but most of the time there's no harm in asking the players why something did or didn't happen that you believe should've been the other way. "Doesn't that 2/2 die to Pyroclasm? Oh, I didn't realize it had +3/+3 from Giant Growth. Just making sure." Sometimes you look silly, but sometimes you get to repair a game state that is faulty.

The most common thing you can notice as a spectator that the players will miss is a life total discrepancy. If you see that the players have different numbers written down, let them know. That's hard for them to notice from their side of the table, and it will spark a conversation to make sure they have accounted for everything and can continue with the game with both of them operating on the same information. I am hesitant to say that this should never happen if both players announce life total changes each time it occurs, but it will certainly cut down on these errors if you get into that good habit.

Don't make it your goal to find a GRV in every game, but if you happen to notice something unusual, I encourage you to ask about it to make sure everyone is on the same page.

3. DON'T point out any missed triggers. As I have explained in great detail by this point, a missed trigger is very different from a game rules violation. By pointing out a trigger that a player may potentially miss, you are essentially offering strategic advice to that player. In sanctioned competitive Magic, doing this sort of thing runs the risk of disqualifying both you and the player you're helping from the event you're playing in. While we don't really hand out DQs at Thursdaddy, the opponent of the player you helped will not be happy with you, and if you're a decent human being, you will probably feel really bad about it.

You might be thinking, "Well, if they missed the trigger and a spectator pointed it out, isn't it easy to fix by just not putting that trigger onto the stack?" While that does solve the problem for this specific instance, the spectator has still changed the amount of information the players have access to. If a player misses a trigger once, there's a reasonable chance that they will miss it again the next time it comes up. By having someone point it out, even if it doesn't resolve this particular time, it's now on their radar so they'll almost certainly remember next time. Their opponent might be making decisions based on them forgetting or remembering that trigger, and now those decisions will be different. It's kind of a butterfly effect, and it's better for everyone if you don't point out triggers during gameplay as a spectator. After the match is over, feel free to discuss your observations to help them going forward.

Now, I can see the difference between #2 and #3 being confusing to many people. I often take for granted my understanding of the game, but I realize that the difference between a game rules violation and a missed trigger is not obvious to everyone. If you're spectating a match and you notice something odd happen, but you're not 100% sure which of these it is, you can do what you're supposed to do at sanctioned events: ask the players to pause the match while you summon a judge (or in this case, a more knowledgable player at Thursdaddy). You shouldn't reveal any information as to why you asked them to pause the game, and the players are not required to stop playing just because you asked. However, it's usually in everyone's best interest to wait for an official ruling to come sort out whatever problem has arisen. Once you have asked them to pause, come ask an experienced player about the issue. Explain as much as you can away from the table. The experienced player may say that what happened is fine, and tell you to instruct them to continue playing; otherwise that player may need to go to the table to help sort things out. Obviously, you are not required to do anything as a spectator, even if something looks wrong to you. Looking dumb is scary, and nobody will blame you for not stopping a match in progress. If you have any questions about an interaction or something you saw during a game, make a note of it and ask later during downtime. You'll learn something for the future.

Now, I understand that even after reading all of this once and perfectly memorizing it in its entirety, you and everyone else will still come across situations where a rule causes a dispute, and you will need help to get the problem resolved. There are usually plenty of employees and experienced players around to assist you. Here are some of the people you can turn to:

 

That's all I can think of for now. If you have any questions or concerns, don't hesitate to ask. If there are any mistakes I have overlooked, please let me know. If I make any edits to this after receiving feedback, I will note it at the top of the article.